Geocache removal

[GrizzFlyer]

Got a call this afternoon from Tammy at the Metroparks, advising that a ranger had received a complaint from a horseback rider that claimed the horse he/she was on was startled by a geocacher at the Quiet Oaks cache. They also had a report that somebody bushwacked their way to the cache instead of taking one of 4 established trails. So the cache has been removed, I'll look around and see if there is another good place to replace it.

Thank you to Tammy for the phone call and assistance, and to the ranger for retrieving the cache for me.

We can all agree that geocachers in this area are very environmentally conscious, and generally practice good judgment while seeking or placing geocaches. Please let this be a reminder that trails are established in the metroparks to avoid damage to local habitat, and also for our safety.

[Handyman-N-Fam]

I understand where the Metroparks is coming from...to a point.

I am a little confused about the spooking the horse part. So if a hiker spooks a horse while walking a multi-use trail, do they ban hiking?

I understand no one wants to have their horse spooked, and no one wants to spook a horse, but what does that part have to do with your cache?


As for the bushwhacking part, it probably wouldn't hurt to edit existing cache pages to advise people that they don't need to bushwhack to find any caches in Toledo Metroparks.

[TeamMina]

We're seeing both sides right here too. We don't actually have a Metroparks cache, but certainly if they have a problem with a location, we would be perfectly happy to move it to make everyone happy. But there are dozens of startling things in a forest. And a person or two to crouching by a tree or a pile of wood shouldn't frighten a horse any more than a deer, a bolt of lightning, or a snake.

As dog-walkers, (or human-walkers as dogs refer to it), we've come across more than a one horse along the trails in the area. And if our geo-dog doesn't spook a horse, nothing will. Just saying, if a horse is afraid of humans off the side of the path opening a lok-n-lok, maybe that is a horse that is the one who is too nervous to be on public trails.

[Stumpy75]

From the Metroparks web site... Bold is mine. I'm just sayin'...

9.0 Horseback Riding
9.1 Riding Permit and Area Misuse
Persons shall only use, ride or drive any horse or other animal upon bridle paths designated and
established for horseback riders while within the park. (MM)
9.2 Areas Where Horses are Permitted
Horseback riders shall stay on the designated bridle trails when away from the stable areas and are not
permitted elsewhere in the park. (MM)
9.3 Horseback Riding Safety
No person shall ride a horse along any bridle trail without due respect for other riders, vehicles, or
pedestrians or so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person while in lawful use of the park.
(MM)
9.4 Leaving Horses Unattended
No person shall leave a horse unattended within the park other than for purpose of stabling at a
designated stable area. (MM)
9.5 Mistreatment of Horses
No rider or other person shall mistreat, override, cruelly beat, mutilate, or torture any horse within the
park. (MM)
9.6 Horseback Riding Only
No person shall use, ride, or drive any horse or other animal driven cart, wagon, sled, or other
conveyance upon any park trails. (MM)

[GrizzFlyer]

You all have a very valid point about spooking horses. Being a horse person myself, my first thought was "can't the rider control her/his own horse?". But when I later retrieved the cache and expressed that thought to the ranger, I was told that was being negative. If the horse is that skittish, or the rider is that inexperienced, then it doesn't belong on a public trail, IMHO. It would really freak out when a deer jumps out of the brush in front of the horse (which has happened to me many times). Its a reaction that is easily trained out of a horse by simple trail riding training techniques.

The page for this geocache specifically stated to use established trails only, and gave waypoints for three very close trail entrances. As for the bushwacking, I'm not really convinced that happened, but I wasn't there.

I know what the real problem is, but it wouldn't be prudent to say in a public forum.

[styx]

I had a run in with a "horse" lady while going for one of the reindeer caches early this summer. I had Pax with me (on leash) and was in the parking lot of the horse staging area. This "lady" owns a business teaching horseback riding. As it turns out the person whose grand daughter she was giving a lesion to knew me and called me over. At the same time the Air National Guard flew overhead and spooked her horse. I was still quite a distance away from them by my car. She lit into me about how I should not have a natural predator (my dog) or my walking stick (which could be interpreted by a horse as a staff that trainers use to beat their horses with) anywhere in the Metroparks. The horse trails were only for horses. She told me I was an inconsiderate @#$#$@ for attempting to walk down her trails and that she would need to warn the riders on the trail that my dog would attack their horses. I would be responsible for injury, death, etc.... After threatening multiple times to call the Ranger (which I encouraged her to do), I finally gave up trying to reason with her and went down the trail partially just to p*ss her off to go find the cache.

The next day when I was again in the park I flagged down a Ranger and ran this by him. His reaction was apologetic for the behavior of the horse lady. He stated that they are essentially running a business in a public park and think they own the park and the right to use it. I had every right to walk my dog on leash with my hiking stick and pointed out that many trails were dual use. I have talked to several horse people that I know and all agree that if a horse is that nervous it should not be out in public as the horse (not what is around it) would be responsible for the injury to the rider or the hiker.

BTW.... is bushwhacking illegal in the Metropark system?

[Stumpy75]

BTW.... is bushwhacking illegal in the Metropark system?

Although it is not "illegal", it is highly discouraged because of the fragile plant communities that abound, especially in some of the areas at Oak Openings. Park regs say that geocaches should be within 50' of a trail, so there really should not be much of a need to bushwack anyway.

[Mighty_Mo]

Styx,

If she thinks Pax looks scary, I should show up with Bear, he is a 140# Alaskan Malamute and looks like a timer wolf! Now you talk about a natural predator!

Maybe offer her a cell phone to call someone that gives a #@$%

[styx]

Maybe offer her a cell phone to call someone that gives a #@$%

I've taken to walking Pax in the Maumee State Forrest. Orange vest on... Leash off. I'd rather deal with the hunters than the "nice horse lady".... Although I have to check if there are rules to having a dog off leash. I haven't seen anything posted. Does anyone know?

[cheechgang]

I've taken to walking Pax in the Maumee State Forrest. Orange vest on... Leash off. I'd rather deal with the hunters than the "nice horse lady".... Although I have to check if there are rules to having a dog off leash. I haven't seen anything posted. Does anyone know?

I haven't seen it mentioned one way or the other in genereal regulations anywhere on the web.

[Mighty_Mo]

Lucas County:
At all times. All dogs must be physically confined or restrained on the owner, keeper, or harborer's property in the following ways:

A. Leash
B. Tether
C. Supervision of a person <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
D. Adequate fence

Not sure about the State Forest though

[styx]

When we are out and about I have his electronic collar on. That should qualify as an "electronic" tether under supervision. At least it is a reasonable argument. Is this still Lucas or Wood county?

[cheechgang]

Pieces of Maumee State Forest are in Lucas, Fulton, and Henry County.

[GrizzFlyer]

Well, an interesting turn of events. The cache in question was not even my cache. When I picked up the cache from the ranger the other day, I thought that the container was larger than what I put out, but wasn't sure. The ranger was parked 300 feet away from my cache at the time, and the discussion was about the cache being on the horse trail and by a bridge, like mine was. Today I looked at the log, and immediately realized that it was not mine. A little research later determined the correct cache and rightful owner, which was just to the south of my cache, on the horse trail and under a bridge. Arrangements were made to get the cache back to the owner and moved somewhere away from the horse trail.

Today I talked with the other ranger that was there at the time, and explained the situation to her. She advised that they had 2 concerns: people "popping" out from under a bridge on the horse trail, and a geocacher that allegedly had an unleashed dog in the area. Its useless to argue the point, as I wasn't there, but neither were the rangers, who are believing the complaining persons version. I also left a message on Tammy's voicemail to let her know what's going on.

I also retrieved my cache, GC2VJXX "Quiet Oaks" and archived it, just to head off any future problem there.

[Mighty_Mo]

The cache the ranger pulled has been relocated close to the Scout Trail and the owner will ask Keystone to move the coords.