Against the rules......or NOT?

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Team_Maltese
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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby Team_Maltese » Wed 2012-03-14, 21:31:51

Hmmmm...not wanting to shake a dead horse, but...we logged a pair of FTFs west of Angola, Indiana after midnight this morning that were both below grade. The first one resembled a dry-roasted peanut jar in a 4" pvc sleeve about 10" deep under a rather large rock, and the other was a child sized soapy bubbles container that was epoxied to a rock and inserted into a sleeve made of 1-1/2" pvc pipe. The latter reminded me somewhat of a fake lawn sprinkler, at least in concept and style, except it had a rock for a top. No tools were required to grab the caches, and it is quite possible that no tools were used to install the sleeves. The large one looked as though it may have been dropped into an existing hole, and the second one was small enough that it may have simply been pushed into the soft dirt like a fake lawn sprinkler.
So, how does a literal interpretation of the rules affect the placement of fake lawn sprinklers? (We have one in the wild and more in our caching toolbox)
And would the first cache be within the guidelines if it was indeed placed in an existing hole?
Regardless, these two were rather clever hides and quite creative, so they both garnered favorite points :-)
woof-woof from geo-pups Zoe and Daisy

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Mighty_Mo
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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby Mighty_Mo » Wed 2012-03-14, 23:01:03

As stated previously not everyone abides by the guidelines and no one tells the reviewer that their cache doesn't conform to the guide lines. That is if they even have read the guidelines.
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cheechgang
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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby cheechgang » Thu 2012-03-15, 09:09:39

Mighty_Mo wrote:As stated previously not everyone abides by the guidelines and no one tells the reviewer that their cache doesn't conform to the guide lines. That is if they even have read the guidelines.


BINGO!

And very few finders have any interest in diving into the drama that ensues if you bring the infraction to the attention of the reviewer
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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby KeystoneGC » Thu 2012-03-15, 20:19:31

Team_Maltese wrote:Hmmmm...not wanting to shake a dead horse, but...we logged a pair of FTFs west of Angola, Indiana after midnight this morning that were both below grade. The first one resembled a dry-roasted peanut jar in a 4" pvc sleeve about 10" deep under a rather large rock, and the other was a child sized soapy bubbles container that was epoxied to a rock and inserted into a sleeve made of 1-1/2" pvc pipe. The latter reminded me somewhat of a fake lawn sprinkler, at least in concept and style, except it had a rock for a top. No tools were required to grab the caches, and it is quite possible that no tools were used to install the sleeves. The large one looked as though it may have been dropped into an existing hole, and the second one was small enough that it may have simply been pushed into the soft dirt like a fake lawn sprinkler.
So, how does a literal interpretation of the rules affect the placement of fake lawn sprinklers? (We have one in the wild and more in our caching toolbox)
And would the first cache be within the guidelines if it was indeed placed in an existing hole?
Regardless, these two were rather clever hides and quite creative, so they both garnered favorite points :-)

I looked at both of these.

1. Neither one says in the cache description "This cache is buried!" That would gain any reviewer's attention. You never see the ones that come to the reviewers that way.

2. Absent a clear statement on the cache page, we rely on what the owner says privately in their reviewer note. Cache submissions with no reviewer notes take longer to get published; good reviewer notes ensure swift publication. T-Hunter never writes five paragraph essays in his reviewer notes, but he always tells me that a cemetery cache isn't near any graves, that a guardrail cache is hidden in a township where he talked to the commissioners about geocaching, etc.

3. For the one cache, the owner told the reviewer that they glued a rock on top of the container - which is fine, if you use your own rock. There was no mention of a PVC pipe.

4. For the other cache, the owner told the reviewer that they used an existing hole - which is fine. There was no mention of a PVC pipe.

5. For sprinkler caches, match containers and other similarly shaped objects, if you can push them with your thumbs into turf, soft dirt or sand, you aren't burying anything. Hence the famous "pointy object" words in the text of the guideline. Mina's feet count as pointy objects. This is called the "claws clause" and is a secret guideline. If I told you about the claws clause, I'd have to shoot you.

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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby TeamMina » Thu 2012-03-15, 20:46:58

KeystoneGC wrote:
5. For sprinkler caches, match containers and other similarly shaped objects, if you can push them with your thumbs into turf, soft dirt or sand, you aren't burying anything. Hence the famous "pointy object" words in the text of the guideline. Mina's feet count as pointy objects. This is called the "claws clause" and is a secret guideline. If I told you about the claws clause, I'd have to shoot you.


Luckily, Mina's "Claws Clause" was legally (albeit secretly) grandfathered in, as it piggy-backed our local "The Bearclaws Clause".
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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby Team_Maltese » Fri 2012-03-16, 02:35:48

Keystone,
Thanks for taking the time to investigate a bit and offer further clarification. As for Team Maltese, we can rest easier knowing that our lawn sprinklers should be fine, and if we find any existing holes...well, we might have a few ideas :-)
Thanks again!
woof-woof from geo-pups Zoe and Daisy

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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby yogi57 » Fri 2012-03-16, 06:29:14

I never dig any holes......But I did take time to train a groundhog to dig holes for me. 8O
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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby Team_Maltese » Fri 2012-03-16, 23:22:46

Yogi - would a groundhog fall under the "claws clause"??
woof-woof from geo-pups Zoe and Daisy

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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby T-Hunter » Sun 2012-03-18, 12:24:25

I found a cache yesterday that was about 30 feet from a VERY active rail. It was placed between a rail to trail and the live rail. I wonder how that one got published.
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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby cheechgang » Sun 2012-03-18, 12:31:51

T-Hunter wrote:I found a cache yesterday that was about 30 feet from a VERY active rail. It was placed between a rail to trail and the live rail. I wonder how that one got published.



When we were at that one we had to duck behind the trees when the work-train came by. It was a lot closer to the active track than to the trail.
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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby Mighty_Mo » Sun 2012-03-18, 12:50:43

T-Hunter wrote:I found a cache yesterday that was about 30 feet from a VERY active rail. It was placed between a rail to trail and the live rail. I wonder how that one got published.

I wondered how that one got published also. I spent some time looking in the spare RR ties before searching where the cache actually is. Maybe some caches slip through the cracks.
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Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby TeamMina » Sun 2012-03-18, 16:34:48

Which cache is this, we would love to know? Please feel free to pm or email us to not call it out here directly, if not desired.
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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby cheechgang » Sun 2012-03-18, 17:08:08

TeamMina wrote:Which cache is this, we would love to know? Please feel free to pm or email us to not call it out here directly, if not desired.



done
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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby TheBearclaws » Sun 2012-03-18, 20:55:20

Back in the day, the Bearclaw Cub set up a cache that wouldn't cut the mustard today. Back then there was a subclause that could be read as "with owners permission".
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Re: Against the rules......or NOT?

Postby T-Hunter » Sat 2012-05-19, 12:30:43

Well I just solved one near Lima that requires you to email the owner for the next stage.....I KNOW that one is not within the guidelines.....GRRRRRRRRRR :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup:
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