Bump

This forum area will be used to suggest NWOGEO suggested guidelines for geocaching.

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TheBearclaws
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Bump

Postby TheBearclaws » Sat 2010-01-09, 16:10:35

Now that we have a steering committee in place I hope the issues that have been brought up in this section of the forums will get some attention. Recent bomb scares around the country have prompted me to once again think that we may ruin this for ourselves.
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TheBearclaws
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Re: Bump

Postby TheBearclaws » Sun 2010-01-10, 22:48:49

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T-Hunter
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Re: Bump

Postby T-Hunter » Mon 2010-01-11, 06:19:07

Well what can the committee do about caches like that? We are not groundspeak, not all the cache placers are nwogeo members and they are the ones who placed the caches. Not sure what is expected here. The cache placer is SUPPOSED to have permission but a lot of times bad judgment is used to place a cache.

All I am saying is WE as NWOGEO cant make geocaching rules.
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Re: Bump

Postby RustyNail09 » Mon 2010-01-11, 06:38:58

If I am out of line here, someone please step in, but the SC are not Cache cops. Our duty is strictly to guide the group as a whole on a "business" level, not day to day cache placements. It is not that I do not care about the safety and security of our hobby, but many of the SC members also have a 9-5 job, family, and cache when possible in between them. So it is my opinion that we need to police our own and guide them properly, but the SC shall have nothing to do with approving or disapproving individual caches/chachers placements.
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TheBearclaws
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Re: Bump

Postby TheBearclaws » Mon 2010-01-11, 12:34:31

Let me try to clear this up. No one wants to be a cache cop or expects the SC to be one. I'm referring to some things that we're discussed last year that lots of people thought were good ideas but never moved along because there was no decision making group in place. Remember when we were talking about creating a welcome letter for people to send when someone new found one of our caches as a way to make them aware that nwogeo existed? We were also talking about having something on this website to use as a tool to help someone understand why placing caches in certain ways may bring suspicions and trouble. Something that points to this guideline:

Guidelines that Apply to all Cache Types
For all physical caches and waypoints, think carefully about how your container and the actions of geocachers will be perceived by the public. Be respectful when considering cache and waypoint placements in areas which are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans (examples may include archaeological or historic sites or cemeteries). For example, a cache hidden in full view of office or apartment building windows exposes a geocacher to being seen by someone who may think the cache search looks suspicious. Your cache may be hidden on public property with permission, but there may be concerned residents on the other side of that property line. And, while an ammo box or PVC pipe may be a great container if hidden deep in the woods, it may cause alarm if discovered in an urban setting. A clear plastic container or a microcache may be a better choice. In busy areas, avoid containers that look suspicious, including attachment materials like wires or tape. To reduce confusion and alarm when a cache is discovered accidentally, clearly label your container on the outside with appropriate information to say it is a geocache. Cover over any military markings with paint or a geocache sticker. Include an explanatory "stash note" inside your cache. Common sense in selecting hiding spots and containers can reduce the risk of your cache being perceived as a danger to those who are unaware of our sport.


A couple weeks ago I skipped over a cache and left a note on the page the reason being that I felt it was the type where I have had encounters with police. I also wrote the owner a mail elaborating but never sent it. But if a well thought out, no finger pointing, educational paragraph were available on this website I probably would have referred them to it and let them draw their own conclusions.
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cheechgang
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Re: Bump

Postby cheechgang » Mon 2010-01-11, 13:36:53

RustyNail09 wrote: So it is my opinion that we need to police our own and guide them properly, but the SC shall have nothing to do with approving or disapproving individual caches/chachers placements.


The second half of the sentence is a given, but "police our own" is the key. How best to do that?
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Re: Bump

Postby Mighty_Mo » Mon 2010-01-11, 14:11:24

cheechgang wrote:
RustyNail09 wrote: So it is my opinion that we need to police our own and guide them properly, but the SC shall have nothing to do with approving or disapproving individual caches/chachers placements.


The second half of the sentence is a given, but "police our own" is the key. How best to do that?


Isn't "Police our own" being a cache cop? I don't think we should ask the SC to assume that role.
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Re: Bump

Postby RustyNail09 » Mon 2010-01-11, 14:28:31

The proper way to to police our own is to e-mail the owner in a calm matter and explain your dislike for the cache and possibly send another few cachers out to check it out and gather their opinions.
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cheechgang
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Re: Bump

Postby cheechgang » Mon 2010-01-11, 14:49:19

I know it is already mentioned in the forums here somewhere, but this is just another recent reminder. I may not be as tactful as the SC with cache owners in the future...

Caches in view of businesses and customers can cause problems

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Re: Bump

Postby GizmoGuy411 » Mon 2010-01-11, 15:03:13

I agree with everyone so far. The NWOGEO Membership including the SC can not be cash cops. It sounds like everyone above may actually agree on principal, however may be stuck in the mud at bit on terminology.

However there is no reason we can not have something here on our website like TheBearClaws posted to help "guide our own" rather than "police our own".

Obviously careful wording will be important for such a "guide", and with references back to the official guidelines of GC, as we do not want to sound like we are the final say or that we supersede the GC.

Other than guidelines, there are of course the actual laws and rules of various places that caches could potentially be hidden.

One point that has always bothered me, that has kept me from placing very many caches myself is the idea that permission was always granted when a cache was placed.

How many of us can claim that we had explicit permission to hide every one of our cache hides?

Then even WITH permission, the situation in the above pictures may not be avoidable with caches hidden in such a way!
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Re: Bump

Postby jslagle » Mon 2010-01-11, 17:11:24

While we certainly cannot and should not expect the SC to be cache cops, we can work as a group to establish guidelines that we ASK our members to follow. This will go a long way when working with parks and other entities to show that we are a responsible group.

I also encourage use of the "Needs Maint" or even "Needs Archived" logs on caches that are clearly bad. I'm certainly not afraid to use them, and wouldn't be offended if a cache of mine was archived because someone told a finder that he didn't want it on his property.

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TheBearclaws
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Re: Bump

Postby TheBearclaws » Mon 2010-01-11, 18:11:08

Then there's always the possibility of being prosecuted as a hider. I would sure reconsider my cache placement if this was pointed out to me. In case everyone didn't see the readers comments at the bottom of cheech's link, here's one of them:

Hmmmmm wrote on Jan 9, 2010 9:23 AM:

" Game or no game, this is twice here in Midland in two years. The time has come when our tax dollars no longer foot the bill for things like this. The person who placed this should have to pay for the operation that took place to determine whether it was a bomb or not. He should also be held accountable for lost revenues at the businesses impacted. I see this as no different that the many morons who decide to go hiking or mountain climbing in the dead of winter and then when they get stuck they expect others to risk their own lives to come rescue them. Free of charge of course. John Q. Public foots the bill. It is nonsense. "


I do not agree nor disagree with this person. I'm pointing it out as a FYI.
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Re: Bump

Postby T-Hunter » Mon 2010-01-11, 18:42:49

I feel the only way this will be resolved is if Groundspeak themselves take action and ban caches in lamp posts, guardrails, or just in high pedestrian traffic areas in general. They should require ALL reviewers to question the cache owner before publishing it if there is any doubt at all. The satellite imagery they use to help identify a location is a good tool to help keep this game alive and well. After all, the cache can't be found if it hasn't been published.
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Re: Bump

Postby GrizzFlyer » Tue 2010-01-12, 02:23:43

thunter16148 hit it on the head. It'll have to be a guideline/rule from Groundspeak. They are the only ones who can actually enforce anything.

The rest of us as players in this activity can discuss this, like we're doing now, and those that read these forums can perhaps take a second view of any caches they own or want to establish, and use the wisdom gained from our talks to guide their cache placements.

I wonder how many have written a note to a cache owner politely expressing disdain for their cache, in terms of placement, and the cache owner pulled the cache in response to that? Probably a few, but not too many. I can recall a couple of times that just the opposite occurred.

Most of us here realize the ramifications of poorly placed caches, and we can do very little about it but try to educate and hope a little sinks in now and then.
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Re: Bump

Postby Mighty_Mo » Tue 2010-01-12, 02:31:08

So maybe one of our more literary accomplished members might want to sent an email to Groundspeak or start a discussion over in their forum.
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