Email from the Ohio Historical Society

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2045fan
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Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby 2045fan » Sat 2006-05-20, 00:24:03

Just wondering . . . I received an email from the OHS, asking that I obtain a permit for my virtual cache which is on OHS property. I don't own a virtual cache, however I have a regular cache in a cemetery, which, I believe may have a OHS building within the cemetery (very public cemetery, by the way). Has anyone else received similar emails?

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Re: Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby GoodDog » Sat 2006-05-20, 02:53:12

I got a similar notice for my Ft. Meigs cache. I told them I didn't need permission because the only requirement is that someone reads a sign and the place is open to the public. We'll see what comes of this.

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Re: Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby GoodDog » Sat 2006-05-20, 18:32:13

I sent an email to Cpt. Buckeye and he responded Well, All caches have to have permission regardless of the type. If they ask Groundspeak that a virtual be archived, it will be.

I sent him a follow up note. It's just plain stupid to get permission for a virtual. This just must be Groundspeak's rule because there is now way the HYSTERICAL Society could enforce this. Are they trying to tell me that all the new waymarking caches have permission of building owners, Mc Donalds, public statues, Grand Canyon etc? This permission registration stuff is getting out of hand.

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Re: Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby TheBearclaws » Sat 2006-05-20, 21:16:17

Here is a link to the Ohio Historical Society Policy
http://www.ohiohistory.org/geocache/guidelines.pdf
I would contact them and ask for a clarification of the email.
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Re: Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby cheechgang » Sat 2006-05-20, 22:08:31

This should prove interesting!

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Re: Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby cheechgang » Sun 2006-05-21, 03:29:14

Wait till the Metroparks piggy-back on these geniuses' ideas!
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Re: Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby GizmoGuy411 » Sun 2006-05-21, 06:28:40

Several geocachers in the Northwest Ohio area have voiced concerns over the cache placement requirements. While I do not speak for them, I thought I should express my thoughts independently for your consideration.

Item #5, has several requirements that may make placing a cache completely impractical.

"5. At the end of the permit period (May 1), the cache owner will issue a statistics report to the site with the following information: how long the cache site was out, the number of visitors to the cache site, their county, state or country of residence, age, and brief description of select items left."

• "number of visitors" - We seldom know the actual number of visitors to a cache. We can only guess.
a) Cacher names can be either a single person or teams of people. Even if the number of people in a team is known, an entire team does not always search every cache.
b) Some cachers fail to log their finds on the Internet caching host site for various reasons.
For these reasons the paper log book in the cache container seldom corresponds directly to the posted Internet logs.

• "county, state or country of resident" - Submission of this information would require research and record keeping of every log entered for the cache. This residence location is voluntary at some geocaching hosting sites. For example, my own "residence" information at Geocaching.com simply says, "Midwest USA".

• "age" - The age of a geocacher is seldom ever known or divulged in either the paper logs or the Internet logs. Many people would view this as an invasion of their privacy.

• "brief description of select items left" - While most cachers indicate what they have taken and left, they do not always remember when posting to the Internet geocaching host, or they simply do not bother. This requirement would also require a significant burden on the cache owner to provide the information requested for the report.

If you want to test the feasibility of your requirements, you should require the same report be submitted for caches places by the OHS. Keep in mind however, that many geocachers have a significant number of caches placed. Those with high numbers of placed caches are often lucky if they can simply keep up with reading the logs, let alone maintain separate statistics.

There are also other forms of geocaching that do not involve a physical container. "Virtual" geocaches are commonly established in locations where a container would not be desirable. These caches simply require the cache hunter to visit the location and provide data from the site such as a picture, a date, or similar criteria to prove that they vested the cache. These types of geocaches are no different than someone simply making a public announcement to visit a location. These types of geocaches are self policed very well by their nature.

Another type of geocache called a "Mystery" geocache, may or may not involve a physical cache at a OHS site. They can involve visiting multiple locations to get various information to solve a puzzle or problem to complete the cache or simply advance to the next stage. It is not uncommon for a physical cache to be involved in the cache at completely different location. In that case it may not even be located on a OHS site. Therefore these types of caches are also not properly addressed in your requirements.



.
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Re: Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby TheBearclaws » Sun 2006-05-21, 11:25:29

Good Job Gizmoguy411! BTW How old are you? :-)
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Re: Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby GizmoGuy411 » Sun 2006-05-21, 14:27:55

Come to think of it, I don't remember anything printed on the inside lid of the container placed by OHS at Fort Meigs. Nor do I recall the log requesting how many in my party, their ages, along with their county, state or country of residence.

I did leave my Social Secuity number and a copy of my passport however! Oh yeah, I also used enclosed the retnial scanner, a sample of my DNA, and thumbprint in ultra violet ink. And just in case that was not enough biometric information, I took a picture of myself holding the GPSr and emailed it to them.
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Re: Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby cheechgang » Sun 2006-05-21, 15:23:00

Your find will be deleted, you forgot to leave the urine sample in the container.
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Re: Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby GizmoGuy411 » Sun 2006-05-21, 16:15:23

cheechgang wrote:Your find will be deleted, you forgot to leave the urine sample in the container.


Darn! Oh well the sample they get will be from Nexus!
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Re: Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby cheechgang » Sun 2006-05-21, 17:25:26

I note with chagrin that the hysterical society cache was illegally placed 445 feet from the exising cache at Fort Miegs. Oh well, I assume that is the one they want Good Dog to remove (or is it the one at Fallen Timbers?)
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Re: Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby GizmoGuy411 » Sun 2006-05-21, 21:41:42

cheechgang wrote:I note with chagrin that the hysterical society cache was illegally placed 445 feet from the exising cache at Fort Miegs. Oh well, I assume that is the one they want Good Dog to remove (or is it the one at Fallen Timbers?)


That is interesting. I wonder why GC approved it then.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest. ... -83.651683

That link comes up with 444 feet!
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Re: Email from the Ohio Historical Society

Postby cheechgang » Sun 2006-05-21, 22:34:39

That historical society, "You Can't live with 'em, you can't live without 'em"
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OHS reply

Postby GizmoGuy411 » Mon 2006-05-22, 16:49:49

Please read the reply from OHS to my email. Note that my original message is below their reply and contains their imbedded comments in bold red italics.

I have posted this here for others to chime in. I will reply to them as soon as possible. I think they are very willing to work with us. Let's be as constructive as possible with our email to them and try not to appear caustic.

OHS wrote:Thank you for contacting the Ohio Historical Society. OHS is new to geocaching and looks forward to working with all geocachers who want to hide/seek a cache at an OHS site.

As we began to develop the policies and procedures, we looked at those of similar organizations. Our final documents were based greatly on the application/permit process of the Columbus MetroParks and the Ohio and Indiana Departments of Natural Resources.

We are more than willing to be flexible with each applicant when discussing each case by case application.

Please see below for additional comments.

Erin Bartlett
Community & Support Services Coord., Western Region
Ohio Historical Society
1982 Velma Ave.
Columbus, OH 43211
mailto:ebartlett@ohiohistory.org
614.297.2653 or 800.840.6127

Connect with the past. Create a better future.


--------------------------------------------
Subject: Cache Placement Requirements

Several geocachers in the Northwest Ohio area have voiced concerns over the cache placement requirements. While I do not speak for them, I thought I should express my thoughts independently for your consideration.

Item #5, has several requirements that may make placing a cache completely impractical.

"5. At the end of the permit period (May 1), the cache owner will issue a statistics report to the site with the following information: how long the cache site was out, the number of visitors to the cache site, their county, state or country of residence, age, and brief description of select items left."

• "number of visitors" - We seldom know the actual number of visitors to a cache. We can only guess.

a) Cacher names can be either a single person or teams of people. Even if the number of people in a team is known, an entire team does not always search every cache.

b) Some cachers fail to log their finds on the Internet caching host site for various reasons. For these reasons the paper log book in the cache container seldom corresponds directly to the posted Internet logs.

• "county, state or country of resident" - Submission of this information would require research and record keeping of every log entered for the cache. This residence location is voluntary at some geocaching hosting sites. For example, my own "residence" information at Geocaching.com simply says, "Midwest USA".

• "age" - The age of a geocacher is seldom ever known or divulged in either the paper logs or the Internet logs. Many people would view this as an invasion of their privacy.

• "brief description of select items left" - While most cachers indicate what they have taken and left, they do not always remember when posting to the Internet geocaching host, or they simply do not bother. This requirement would also require a significant burden on the cache owner to provide the information requested for the report.

We understand that #5 might be hard, if not impossible to complete fully. We would simply appreciate, to the best of a cache owners ability, to give us what demographics they can. If a log entry mentions a name, great. Based on some of the entries we have read, cities and ages are sometimes included. We’re not asking for miracles, just whatever information that is available.

We also do not want to cause cache owners to “jump through hoops� to give us a listing of what’s in a cache. We, as with all cachers, are both curious and concerned of what might be left behind. Concerned only in the regard that many of our sites are protected areas and we would hope that people were not leaving items found at the site or which might be misconstrued as artifacts that came from the site. This is why OHS did not leave any reproduction flint points in any of our archaeological cache site boxes. Do you have any suggestions? What about a digital image of the contents? We can then do the inventory.

This is our first year doing this and we’ve relied heavily on existing applications and policies of similar organizations. If we find at the end of our first year we need to adapt, we will. It’s feedback from people more familiar with caching, like you, that will be the greatest help.


If you want to test the feasibility of your requirements, you should require the same report be submitted for caches places by the OHS. Keep in mind however, that many geocachers have a significant number of caches placed. Those with high numbers of placed caches are often lucky if they can simply keep up with reading the logs, let alone maintain separate statistics. We are trying to keep records of all log submissions and any data that can be gleaned. Wish us luck!

There are also other forms of geocaching that do not involve a physical container. "Virtual" geocaches are commonly established in locations where a container would not be desirable. These caches simply require the cache hunter to visit the location and provide data from the site such as a picture, a date, or similar criteria to prove that they vested the cache. These types of geocaches are no different than someone simply making a public announcement to visit a location. These types of geocaches are self policed very well by their nature. We agree. We are simply curious as to how our sites are being “used� by cachers. I don’t believe that virtual caches need permits, we would just like to know when an OHS site is part of a virtual cache.

Another type of geocache called a "Mystery" geocache, may or may not involve a physical cache at a OHS site. They can involve visiting multiple locations to get various information to solve a puzzle or problem to complete the cache or simply advance to the next stage. It is not uncommon for a physical cache to be involved in the cache at completely different location. In that case it may not even be located on a OHS site. Therefore these types of caches are also not properly addressed in your requirements. See comments on the virtual cache.

Thank you again for contacting us. Your comments have been very insightful and will help us in the future. If you have any further questions or comments, please feel free to contact me.
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